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Final Fantasy XIII thread
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VsPluckyDuck
Duckslit


Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 1268

PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, let's fight some more.

I tried to 5-star the last battle today. I could have done it if I were controlling Sazh, I think, because then I would have had Haste in place much faster than the AI. I think I hated the ending stuff more the second time around. It's like...torture porn with some deus ex machina thrown in to make it really happy.

Quote:
It appears the only thing most reviewers agree on is that the story is a bag of ass. Why is this? In this day and age, do we still not know what it takes to make an engaging storyline?

I wish. I wish. Making things more action-movie isn't really the way to go. Not if you're trying to make characters seem real and sympathetic. The GameTrailers review highlights just how bad the dialogue is sometimes. Looks like they didn't make the localization jump.

This one really had potential, but fell flat. The really human moments for the characters were few and far between. Especially since the trailers gutted the best parts. If you've seen any trailer with Jihl doing or saying anything, you've probably had the best part thrown at you out of context.

I think the problem is that a story with all the right subtleties in all the right places is a much harder sell than "I'm going to be a hero! Cars flying through the air! Let's be in five different aerial chases on five different occasions! Explosions! Sera, I love you!" Compare with, say...Ico.

EDIT: And I say action movie stuff isn't the way to go, but one of the design principles of FFVII was making it more movie-like. So maybe this is an example of that strategy being taken to the extreme?
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Solice Kirsk
True to the bullet pith


Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 1750
Location: "Balls Deep" in Chicago bitches

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VsPluckyDuck wrote:

EDIT: And I say action movie stuff isn't the way to go, but one of the design principles of FFVII was making it more movie-like. So maybe this is an example of that strategy being taken to the extreme?


I thought that they made it more movie like in presentation only. Like how they showed Cloud sneaking into the Shinra building on the monitor and then zooming in on it for you to take control of the character again, or how they used different camera angles during the cutscenes than when you are actually exploring the area.

The story of 7 was still pretty much your basic FF story line.
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RagePirate
Betrayal Burger


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 644
Location: Buffalo, NY

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, see I have a strong hunch that this game is going to make me feel old. You mentioned the soundtrack not really lining up and it made me wonder. Has voice acting effectively killed the effect of music on a storyline? Maybe that sounds absurd, but in every FF until 10, the music being played always complemented the crucial dialogue because the gamer was essentially listening to a potent track while reading the characters' stories. Now we have men who talk like women who try to sound tough while the sound of electric guitars beating the crap out of each other provide the 'ambience'. In short, it appears Final Fantasy 13 has become an over-compensator on par with the male cast of Jersey Shore.
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Omegarage
Captain of the War Wagon


Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 1538
Location: all up in your grill

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RagePirate wrote:
Has voice acting effectively killed the effect of music on a storyline?


Your answer: No.

My example: Rocky IV. Stallone speaks like a retarded monster, but I defy you to tell me that the music/montages didn't make that movie from "just another fight" to "the greatest battle ever waged that ended the Cold War."
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Strategos
a$$


Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 2100
Location: Alll ston, MA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Omegarage wrote:
RagePirate wrote:
Has voice acting effectively killed the effect of music on a storyline?


Your answer: No.

My example: Rocky IV. Stallone speaks like the retarded monster he is, but I defy you to tell me that the music/montages didn't make that movie from "just another fight" to "the greatest battle ever waged that ended the Cold War."

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Acend
Will date your daughter


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 3050
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strategos wrote:
Omegarage wrote:
RagePirate wrote:
Has voice acting effectively killed the effect of music on a storyline?


Your answer: No.

My example: Rocky IV. Stallone speaks like the retarded monster he is, but I defy you to tell me that the music/montages didn't make that movie from "just another fight" to "the greatest battle ever waged that ended the Cold War."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyu9zIUDw0s
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RagePirate
Betrayal Burger


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 644
Location: Buffalo, NY

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Omegarage wrote:
RagePirate wrote:
Has voice acting effectively killed the effect of music on a storyline?


Your answer: No.

My example: Rocky IV. Stallone speaks like a retarded monster, but I defy you to tell me that the music/montages didn't make that movie from "just another fight" to "the greatest battle ever waged that ended the Cold War."


But...if I could change...and YOU could change...then WE could change!
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NR
The Great White Bear of Sunflower Street


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 7611
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RagePirate wrote:
Maybe that sounds absurd, but in every FF until 10, the music being played always complemented the crucial dialogue because the gamer was essentially listening to a potent track while reading the characters' stories.

For some reason, IX particularly jumped into my head on this comment.
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VsPluckyDuck
Duckslit


Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 1268

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NR wrote:
RagePirate wrote:
Maybe that sounds absurd, but in every FF until 10, the music being played always complemented the crucial dialogue because the gamer was essentially listening to a potent track while reading the characters' stories.

For some reason, IX particularly jumped into my head on this comment.

One of the reasons IX's soundtrack is awesome, and why it's Uematsu's favourite of the first nine (last I checked). There were a lot of musical themes, and they were all very interconnected. And the variations on those themes really reflected what was going on onscreen. I think that based on the soundtrack alone, you could follow IX's story.

X's wasn't so so bad in that regard, but much less of a standout in terms of matching with the onscreen action and being memorable while doing so. Although it did have one impeccably cued moment, in the scene at the Al Bhed home where Tidus has his whiny breakdown. There's silence and a bit of ambient background noise, and Rikku says some stuff, and then she looks up, says her line about Yuna dying, and BOOM, in comes the music. It draws your attention and makes the scene better.

It's something that can be done with voicing (movies do it all the time), but for it to stick as a part of the work as a whole, it has to stand out. Otherwise, you're too distracted to do much more than passively enjoy it. And as a music lover, I try to actively enjoy music as it's playing, but I'm not always given an opening.

Movies are marginally better than games in that regard because games seem totally phobic of silence gaps. If people are talking, games don't like letting them pause naturally, and once the talking is finished, it's back to playing. No pauses to take in the gravity of the moment, and there's usually background music underneath the whole thing that gets talked over. Most movies don't like silence, either, but the ones that do get to let the music talk.
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Super Megaman X
Call him SMX


Joined: 05 Oct 2005
Posts: 829
Location: Minnesota

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VsPluckyDuck wrote:

X's wasn't so so bad in that regard, but much less of a standout in terms of matching with the onscreen action and being memorable while doing so. Although it did have one impeccably cued moment, in the scene at the Al Bhed home where Tidus has his whiny breakdown. There's silence and a bit of ambient background noise, and Rikku says some stuff, and then she looks up, says her line about Yuna dying, and BOOM, in comes the music. It draws your attention and makes the scene better.

One section of the game really has this effect for me: when you're exploring the ruins of Zanarkand at the end of the game, and that powerful, driving, and yet very meloncholy piece, "Someday the dream will end" starts playing. It also helps that it overrides the battle music and sets the atmosphere of foreboding for the entire area.
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Idin Leis
McCoy fucked me so hard


Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 4627

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how did you make this thread from something so awesome into something so dull... Sad
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VsPluckyDuck
Duckslit


Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 1268

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idin Leis wrote:
how did you make this thread from something so awesome into something so dull... Sad

SadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSadSad

You're just sad we changed the subject back from Darkfall!

Putting the finishing touches on this GIF pack as I type this. I divided it into five animation categories: Chocobo, Summons, Crystarium, Victory Poses, and Misc.
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LiQuid!
fasta dan a muddafucka!


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 9318

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm just gonna avoid this forum until all you faggots are over this game.
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Strategos
a$$


Joined: 01 Feb 2006
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Location: Alll ston, MA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LiQuid! wrote:
I'm just gonna avoid this forum until all you faggots are over this game.


As if you could stay away.
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VsPluckyDuck
Duckslit


Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 1268

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GIF pack is up.

http://rpgland.com/specials/rpg-lands-final-fantasy-xiii-avatargif-pack/

Some of these were pretty fun to cut.








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RagePirate
Betrayal Burger


Joined: 01 Sep 2005
Posts: 644
Location: Buffalo, NY

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Idin and LiQuid! are squinting hard at each to determine which GIF shall be their new avatar! Meh, I'm probably gonna go rent it. Whatever. I haven't played Fallout 3 yet though and it's only 15 bucks now and it's a travesty that I haven't thoroughly played this game because it's f---in cool ...so if I buy a game, it's gonna be that.
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LiQuid!
fasta dan a muddafucka!


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 9318

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have fun, dick heads.


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Strategos
a$$


Joined: 01 Feb 2006
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Location: Alll ston, MA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not astoundingly linear and impossible to explore.
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VsPluckyDuck
Duckslit


Joined: 19 Jan 2006
Posts: 1268

PostPosted: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strategos wrote:
That's not astoundingly linear and impossible to explore.

That's not a select sampling of the single most linear rooms of at least six different dungeons.

I'm not saying the dungeon design didn't suck, but man, it's not like you need to cherry pick to make fun of the linearity.
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Strategos
a$$


Joined: 01 Feb 2006
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Location: Alll ston, MA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VsPluckyDuck wrote:
Strategos wrote:
That's not astoundingly linear and impossible to explore.

That's not a select sampling of the single most linear rooms of at least six different dungeons.

I'm not saying the dungeon design didn't suck, but man, it's not like you need to cherry pick to make fun of the linearity.


If most people don't need to, but you're LiQuid!, you might.
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