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Used Games Yes, DRM No on PS4
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NR
The Great White Bear of Sunflower Street


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 7611
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Used Games Yes, DRM No on PS4 Reply with quote

lol twitter rage
http://rpgland.com/news/used-games-yes-drm-no-on-ps4-speak-up-with-ps4nodrm-ps4usedgames/
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PipArchDevil



Joined: 30 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neat.
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LiQuid!
fasta dan a muddafucka!


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#teamxbox

Cut out used games. They're useless and damaging to the industry.

As long as DRM isn't invasive (who cares about internet checking, seriously grow the fuck up and live in the now) it doesn't bother me.

I'll buy "new" games when they're cheap just like I do now. Hopefully the lack of a used game market destroying the industry will lead to publishers and MS being more competitive with pricing (like Steam is now) and fucking titsucking nerds will stop being such retarded babies.
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Idin Leis
McCoy fucked me so hard


Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 4627

PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not sell older games for cheaper prices like Steam does?

Why is PC the best?
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NR
The Great White Bear of Sunflower Street


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LiQuid! wrote:
a used game market destroying the industry

lol
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Idin Leis
McCoy fucked me so hard


Joined: 19 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously the only people I know that will be mad about this are collectors that are very poor and people that view going to used game shops as a social outlet.
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PipArchDevil



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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LiQuid! wrote:
#teamxbox

Cut out used games. They're useless and damaging to the industry.

As long as DRM isn't invasive (who cares about internet checking, seriously grow the fuck up and live in the now) it doesn't bother me.


lol
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Omegarage
Captain of the War Wagon


Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 1538
Location: all up in your grill

PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LiQuid! wrote:
Hopefully the lack of a used game market destroying the industry will lead to publishers and MS being more competitive with pricing (like Steam is now)


This is adorable. The innocence. The blind hope. It's like reading a crippled child's dream of walking one day.
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LiQuid!
fasta dan a muddafucka!


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't go to war with the used game market and not be flexible with pricing. MS doesn't have that kind of brand loyalty to gamers. XBO is going to be the Steambox that Valve couldn't give us and it's going to be great. When publishers don't have to fight used game sales which takes money directly out of their pockets, they will be more able to be competitive with prices.
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Omegarage
Captain of the War Wagon


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LiQuid! wrote:
You can't go to war with the used game market and not be flexible with pricing. MS doesn't have that kind of brand loyalty to gamers. XBO is going to be the Steambox that Valve couldn't give us and it's going to be great. When publishers don't have to fight used game sales which takes money directly out of their pockets, they will be more able to be competitive with prices.


I just don't see any of this happening. After that absolutely underwhelming showing of what basically equates to Microsoft's Direct TV Box and everyone at MS being shocked that it wasn't well received because they didn't show any games for a game console, I just don't understand how you can think that they will be in touch with their market enough to give gamers what they want.

Not to mention that most of the TV services they showed at their big debut were services that you still have to pay original fees for on top of paying for X-box live.

Add that to the fact that if you do buy a used game from a retailer, MS is going to charge you an additional fee just to play a game you own on a console that you already own, and it seems like a recipe for disaster.

It really seems as though Microsoft is actually so out of touch that they're under the idea that "people will pay whatever we charge, so we'll just stay the course and charge additional fees wherever we can."

I, for one, would love to see them turn it around and actually find a formula that succeeds, but I just don't see it with the information we've been given. And it doesn't sound like they're planning much new console information to be released at E3. I guess we'll see when it launches later this year.
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LiQuid!
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why the hell would MS focus on games during its fucking amazeballs media box reveal when there is E3 coming up in a matter of weeks? You have to save something.

So much alarmist rhetoric surrounding these console launches. Do you really think Xbox is just not going to have games this generation? Don't be so fucking dumb. It's going to have all the same shit this gen as it had last gen only it's going to provide even MORE compelling reasons to ditch monopolistic cable tv services from your home.

A hybrid PC/game console/tv/media service all wrapped into one box you can put in your living room without having to have a Ph.D in being a huge fucking loser nerd with no dick? Sounds like perfection to me and something every American is going to want to have in their home. Fuck the casual babygame waggle shit from Nintendo. Fuck Sony pandering to "Gamers" with their disgustingly unoriginal, IPs.
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Omegarage
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't say that MS wouldn't have games. In fact, nowhere did I say they wouldn't have games. You've got to read or else our discussion isn't going to go anywhere. I said that they way they are going about their largest target for this product is wrong. They've decided to make some monstrosity that seems to target everyone but the core that made the xbox so popular originally.
The

And a hybrid PC/game console/tv/media service wrapped into one box that you can put in your living room is called a PC. It does all of that better and cheaper in the long run.

Nintendo has been out of the race for years now, but Sony seems to be the only one who is not attempting to alienate core gamers which, by the way, will be largest amount of consumers for these consoles.

Also, the words "unoriginal IP's" coming from someone promoting the xbox is laughable. I get a strong feeling like you've been trolling this entire time. I'll keep up only because it's nice to kill time when I'm working. Like playing against bots in a multiplayer game.
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NR
The Great White Bear of Sunflower Street


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS4 Xbox One Used Games Something Something.

Different website but same idea.

I don't see flexible pricing happening with any amount of regularity. New games are gonna come out at 60 bones and stay that way for a long time. Those of us who experiment with new franchises with their trade-in value in mind as a security net (of which a recent study shows there are many) won't be diving headfirst into spending a bunch more money on games, I don't think.

Basically, for me -- and you can logically assume, for a lot of people -- no used games will undoubtedly mean fewer games, period. Fewer used AND fewer new.
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LiQuid!
fasta dan a muddafucka!


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Omegarage wrote:
I didn't say that MS wouldn't have games. In fact, nowhere did I say they wouldn't have games. You've got to read or else our discussion isn't going to go anywhere. I said that they way they are going about their largest target for this product is wrong. They've decided to make some monstrosity that seems to target everyone but the core that made the xbox so popular originally.
The

Halo TV show (something that would be out of place at an E3 conference) and whatever Call of Duty/Madden/Sports nonsense they had during the conference directly targets their core.

Quote:
And a hybrid PC/game console/tv/media service wrapped into one box that you can put in your living room is called a PC. It does all of that better and cheaper in the long run.

Yeah and Joe Madden isn't the type of person that is going to hook a PC up to their TV to do all this shit. This Xbox is directly going for that same functionality all you PC fags have been enjoying for years, hopefully with a more streamlined UI and without the need for a controller/keyboard/mouse. Sounds like a win to me.

Quote:
Nintendo has been out of the race for years now, but Sony seems to be the only one who is not attempting to alienate core gamers which, by the way, will be largest amount of consumers for these consoles.

MS isn't attempting to alienate anybody. Alarmist, Weeaboo fagballs are choosing to get up in arms about shit when all MS is doing is ADDING things to their already awesome platform. Aside from the used game shit (which is a nonfactor that Sony Defense Force assholes are latching on to to try and discredit MS's attempts to garner the FUTURE of console gaming), this is just an Xbox 360 with SO MUCH MORE. Once Joe Call of Duty can buy that shit and have it on his Xbox for the same price as he can get it ON RELEASE DAY from a Gamestop and then he won't have to worry about installing or having a disc in the drive or whatever else, then fuck a Gamestop, put those exploitative fucks out of business!

Quote:
Also, the words "unoriginal IP's" coming from someone promoting the xbox is laughable. I get a strong feeling like you've been trolling this entire time. I'll keep up only because it's nice to kill time when I'm working. Like playing against bots in a multiplayer game.

All of the franchises that Sonybots laud as worthwhile on the PS3 are such tired bullshit it's not even funny. The Drake games are just cinematic Tomb Raider ripoffs, that game with the Lightning powers is just like Crackdown and any other superpower sandbox game, the Yet Another Mascot Platformer franchises dripping out of the PS3 are laughable. I'll be polite and only passingly mention that hilariously bad Smash Brothers ripoff. Sony offers a whooole lot of variety to gamers as long as you don't care about playing fun video games. Halo literally reinvented first person shooters and the caliber of that game has stayed consistent since its inception. The first Gears of War is one of the best video games ever made and introduced elements to gaming that paved the way for this entire generation of games. The Forza series shames Gran Turismo. Also all you faggots love Fable, even though I think it's a huge turd. All of those franchises are still miles ahead of anything any first party is doing for Sony. Jesus look at those Resistance and Killzone games! What a bunch of half-assed, "me too" GARBAGE!
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LiQuid!
fasta dan a muddafucka!


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NR wrote:
LiQuid! wrote:
a used game market destroying the industry

lol

Also this is a cute little non-post Heath, you sniveling fucking coward. Try and convince me that Gamestop buying used games for $5-20 and then selling them for $20-55 with the publishers getting NO money from the transaction not doing massive harm to the industry?

People bitch about shit like on disc DLC, Project $10, online passes or whatever else but all of these initiatives were launched directly to combat the extreme loss of revenue to to used game sales.

You could argue that used game sales are VASTLY more damaging than even piracy is. A lot of pirates likely wouldn't have bought a game anyways. A lot of people pirate shit just to say they've tried it and afford it no amount of commitment. People that buy used games are actively willing to spend money on them, they just want to wring every possible penny out of the transaction. They don't care if the publisher isn't getting cut in. They don't even care of Gamestop is exploiting them. They saved $5 on a game that came out 2 months ago, so just close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears and chant LA LA LA because PRO CONSUMAR! DOWN WITH THE MAN! THEY CAN'T HAVE MY MONEYZ!!!!!
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NR
The Great White Bear of Sunflower Street


Joined: 31 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kind of wrote a 2,000 word column about it, but if you wanted me to say, I guess I have a minute.
LiQuid! wrote:
Try and convince me that Gamestop buying used games for $5-20 and then selling them for $20-55 with the publishers getting NO money from the transaction not doing massive harm to the industry?


I kinda think you should only get money for selling the same thing once, not twice.

Vilify GameStop for their trade-in offers all you like. If you don't like it, don't use it -- go to eBay or Amazon instead.

LiQuid! wrote:
People bitch about shit like on disc DLC, Project $10, online passes or whatever else but all of these initiatives were launched directly to combat the extreme loss of revenue to to used game sales.

How about combating the extreme loss of revenue due to stupid fucking budgets? Instead of FAMOUS ACTOR GUY for a voice in a game, how about a regular, qualified voice actor who can do just as good of a job but for half the price? Instead of shoving multiplayer into everything, how about some simple QA on the single player end? Game budgets have gotten out of control. Tomb Raider reboot sold almost 4 million and S-E still said it missed the target. What the hell was the target? Shit is getting insane for many reasons other than used games.

LiQuid! wrote:
You could argue that used game sales are VASTLY more damaging than even piracy is.

You COULD also argue that The Moon is to blame for all of this. That doesn't mean it's true or logical to assume any connection.

LiQuid! wrote:
They don't even care of Gamestop is exploiting them.

When the word "Gamestop" enters the discussion, intelligence exits the discussion. If one store has stupid trade-in values, that doesn't mean the whole used game market should be taken down.
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LiQuid!
fasta dan a muddafucka!


Joined: 07 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Video games should not be a tradable commodity. You can't pay $15 to go to a movie, watch the movie and then recoup $10 of your money by handing the stub to someone about to enter. If two people want to play Game X, why shouldn't both people pay the publisher for said game? Games already get steeply discounted at retail after mere months of being on the shelf. Why do you feel entitled to get a second hand discount on top of that?

Blaming out of control budgets is ridiculous. Do you want video games to go back to the PS1 era where they looked like gutter trash and voice acting was laughable? The budget being sunk into modern video games is responsible for them being as amazing as they are. Do you want developers to forgo technology R&D so that engines and system stagnate? Maybe it doesn't matter for your faggy elf games or whatever hot, new, pixel-art, indie trash is making its way to PSN but for top tier games that push the boundary of what a modern video game is, I'm more than happy to shell out my $60 to early adopt it and support the developer.

You would think you people would take note of the literal dozens of development studios that get shuttered every year, especially now in the twilight of a thriving, prosperous console generation and realize that there aren't enough dollars being recouped by these games. Gamers are baffling in that they whine because the things they like go away but then whine harder when asked to support them.
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NR
The Great White Bear of Sunflower Street


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LiQuid! wrote:
You can't pay $15 to go to a movie, watch the movie and then recoup $10 of your money by handing the stub to someone about to enter.

You can't?
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LiQuid!
fasta dan a muddafucka!


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're talking about a home video product. For all intents and purposes the sales of home video are negligible to movie studios compared to their theatrical runs where all movies are deemed successes or failures. Don't play dumb.

Also I skimmed your stupid article and the excuses you're using to justify your bad behavior is astounding. Saying that borrowing games and buying them second hand leads to future legitimate purchases is the same kind of shit pirates use to justify their nonsense. Also even if some dickhead borrowing you a copy of Breath of Fire lead to a dozen other Breath of Fire related purchases, you're being naive as fuck if you think that's typical of the vast majority of people that buy and sell used video games.

I know it's scary that you could potentially be losing access to unpaid for product that you've grown so accustomed to but don't pretend like the behavior is excusable. Using your above example I'll make another movie analogy, "Oh I'm not sure The Hangover is for me so I'll sneak into this first one and if I like it I'll invite all my friends and family with me to see the second one, but THEN we'll all pay for it." You're deflecting responsibility for a wrongdoing on the idea that you'll just make up for it later. It stinks. It's over-entitled, pro-consumerist bullshit.
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The Great White Bear of Sunflower Street


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LiQuid! wrote:
You're talking about a home video product.

Because that's what we're ALL talking about. That's what the whole debate is about.

Your example about movie theaters is more applicable to arcades than home consoles. You pay money at the arcade to play something and then that's it. You pay for the game, but also kinda for the experience of it all. Kind of like, oh yeah, a movie theater.

We're talking about products that you buy and bring home -- like console games. DVDs are more comparable.

If you're going to refute silly comparisons that don't make sense, then stop making them.

Edit:
LiQuid! wrote:
Using your above example I'll make another movie analogy, "Oh I'm not sure The Hangover is for me so I'll sneak into this first one and if I like it I'll invite all my friends and family with me to see the second one, but THEN we'll all pay for it."

No, that sounds like piracy.

The correct answer is: movie rentals.
Edit 2: Also borrowing movies from a friend who owns them.
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